UP Women's Commission Chief Tells Arnab Reason Behind Her Controversial Order On Bad Touch

Lucknow: Men should not take women's measurements at tailor shops, should not cut a woman's hair or train her in the gym either - these are some of the remedies proposed by the Uttar Pradesh State Women Commission to protect women and stymie the ill intentions of men.

However, speaking to Republic TV Editor-in-Chief Arnab Goswami , Babita Chauhan Chairperson, Uttar Pradesh Women’s Commission said, "The document (that we have created) doesn't even mention haircuts. I have proposed the amends for beauty parlours. Earlier, make-up artists used to be women but now, since last one to two years, men have started working there, as a trend."

Chauhan further said, "I feel men who dress up women can't drape sarees and lehengas better than women. It is not India's culture and tradition."

Chauhan told Arnab, "There should be women trainers too in the gym apart from men trainers. There are several women who get trained by male trainers for lack of option of female trainers. Also, speaking of male tailors, women who are comfortable getting their clothes stitched from them must continue doing so but they should proivde their body measurements to women tailors."

The radical raft of suggestions, which also include installing CCTVs in gyms, cloth stores and coaching centres, and having a woman for security in school buses, followed a meeting held on October 28.

The commission said it has sent letters on the guidelines, which aim at segregating men and women in public spaces, to all district magistrates in the state to ensure compliance on the matter.

A functionary of the panel said this is just a proposal and it will subsequently request the state government to implement them by enacting a law.

"There have been increasing complaints of 'bad touch' by male trainers in gyms and in women's boutiques where tailors who take measurements are mostly male," Chauhan, chairperson of the commission, told PTI.

"What we are saying is that it isn't a problem if the tailor is male but only women should take measurements," she said.

In a press note, the women's panel proposed that women's gyms and yoga centres should only have female trainers. The gym and the trainers should be verified, while CCTV and DVRs at the establishments should mandatorily be in working condition, it said.

It said boutiques should have a female tailor to take women's measurements for clothes, with a functioning CCTV at the store. Shops selling women's clothes are required to have female employees, it said.

It is mandatory to have a female dance teacher at drama centres and a female security guard or teacher in school buses, the guidelines added.

Chauhan said, "We are aware that trained women will have to be employed at all these places and this might take some time." However, it would also help employ more women, she added.

The panel's proposals have ignited a debate with many wondering if instead of "isolating men", the focus should be on "empowering women." "There is a difference between sensitising men and isolating them," Lucknow-based Niti, who works on women issues, told PTI.

"There is nothing wrong with the proposals per se because there is always the other side but the point is if you were to push it too far, then one could also argue that you may well ask for women teachers to teach reproductive systems to girl students. Then there are many male gynecologists who are very good and so what do we do them? So, as long as you don't force the decision on women and leave it to them to make a choice whose service they prefer or are more comfortable with, it's fine," she said.

Later, when PTI approached Babita Chauhan on her take on the responses her contentious proposal had generated, she said her suggestions weren't aimed at forcing anyone to take services from any particular gender.

"I am not telling women that you take services at gyms or at boutiques only from women. What I am saying is that I am all for providing options and leave it to women to make the choice about whether she is more comfortable having men around or women.

"The point is those women who prefer taking these services from men at a gym, boutique or salon are not the ones who are approaching us with their complaints. Those approaching us are not comfortable, complain of 'bad touch' and should have an option," she said.

Asked if her proposals have been implemented anywhere across the state, Chauhan said, "We are in the process of identifying whether our proposals have reached all district magistrates. We have also sent our proposals to the chief secretary and so yes, it is the government which would implement them." Himani Agarwal, a member of the commission, said the proposal floated by Chauhan on October 28 was accepted by the panel.

Explaining the rationale behind the proposal, she told PTI the involvement of men in such professions can lead to women getting molested.

"They (men) try to indulge in bad touch. The intention of some of the men is also not good," she said, adding, "not that all men have bad intentions".

Samajwadi Party MLA Ragini Sonkar was of the opinion that it should be left to individuals to decide which store or gym they want to go to.

"I don't think this is a justified decision as it should be an individual choice on whether one prefers a male or a female to attend to them. It is a matter of choice," said the MLA from Machhlishahr in Jaunpur district.

"We are okay with the proposal about women's presence being mandatory at shops selling women's garments and at tailoring shops. But then, ultimately, it boils down to individual choice and this can't be limited to a particular sex," Sonkar told PTI.

Former acting VC of Lucknow University, teacher and activist Roop Rekha Verma, said, "There cannot be a more stupid idea than this, because what is required is to create psychology in the minds of public that we are not so different and so exclusive human beings as we are seen by each other.

"We are human beings and citizens in the same sense, and therefore this ghettoisation that women will speak to women, women will cut the hair of women, this sort of exclusive separation between boys and girls is the main cause of whatever is happening today in the country." Madhu Garg, national joint secretary of AIDWA (All India Democratic Women's Association), said, "This is not the correct thought process, and this is done by those people who are having a narrow-minded thought process. By doing so, the jobs of hundreds of people will be at risk of getting lost." "Generally, it is seen that women themselves give their measurements to the tailors. This is not a big issue. If the (UP State) Women Commission wants to do anything, then it should stop the rape and murder of women. They are unable to do anything about this, and are speaking like this on petty issues." However, social workers Veena Sharma and Mohsina Choudhary welcomed the proposal, saying there are many complaints of women being harassed while giving measurements at tailor shops. They said that the proposal should be law.

Sharma is the Muzaffarnagar district coordinator of Mission Shakti -- a government women empowerment initiative, while Choudhary was earlier a member of the Child Welfare Board in the district.

Head of Kiran Sewa Samaj Uthan committee Ravita Dhagne in Muzaffarnagar also agreed with them.

Supriya Kohli, who runs a boutique at Lucknow's Prag Narain Road, said, "Usually there aren't any objections on the issue of who is taking measurements but we do have women to take measurements if the client demands it. There is nothing wrong with the move per se." (with PTI inputs)